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If we are really spirits, as some teach, what’s the point of having a body? To learn something? No! If we already existed, with God, as some say, then what’s to learn? That is religion talking.

Even if God creates our spirit when we are born, again, what’s the point? If we are really spirits, why do we need to live in a body and then die? If it’s to learn something, then again, that is religion talking.

Think, people. The Bible does not support this. Other religions support it, and other religions have some truth about God, but this is not one of those truths. I thought maybe it was. I thought about it, followed it through, and the only reason to suppose that we are spirits is so we continue on after death. But that thinking is flawed.

The Hebrew thought was that you die and sleep in the grave until awakened. Then some pagan thought crept in, and the Jews began to believe in a hidden place where all spirits waited for the resurrection. But it was always resurrection. Not floating off to heaven and dancing on streets of gold, seeing all your loved ones who made it in, and being immediately with the Lord.

And God help those who didn’t make it to heaven, who never ‘invited Jesus into their hearts’ or who never even heard of Him. Apparently it’s OK with most Christians is three fourths of all the people who have ever lived will be in the eternal conscious torment of hell.

Which begs the question of how is a spirit tormented? Or if it’s heaven, what do spirits wear? Spirit clothes? How do you see other? Spirit eyes? And if that’s what it’s all about, why did we to live in corruptible bodies? Why bother? Which is what I was asking at the beginning.

So, my conclusion is that we are living souls. We have something called a spirit, whatever that is. When we die, it goes back to God who gave it. The word for spirit is wind, breath, air. Not ghost or apparition. Why didn’t the writers use those words? Just saying.

I just read the following:

“You heard me right…  Jesus ISN’T physically coming back… not next year, not the year after that, nor in the   lifetimes of our great, great grandchildren (or even for their grandchildren).  What IS coming is the Spring, the Summer, the Autumn, and the Winter…  No one gets out of here (physically) alive.  Not you, not me, not our furry little pets, not the sparrow, nor the hawk, nor the deer, nor your children…

That’s the whole point of the HUMAN EXPERIENCE… We are not human beings having a spiritual experience, but spiritual beings having a human experience.  And part of that experience IS silently slipping through that hospital room’s ceiling tiles at the end of our time here.  Trying to make that go away with men’s words or crazy interpretations of an ancient vision someone had for his local fellow bond servants – will simply not get that job done, no more than talking to a tree will ensure the leaves don’t turn yellow and brown in September.  It is a fantasy we have blindly bought into, and it will NOT stop the winter – that is surely coming for each and every one of us.

And guess what else?  It is not something we should be afraid of, for the eternal part of us, who we really are – returns to God from whence we all came. (Ecclesiastes 12:7) ”

This is the big lie that is being fed to a lot of people. Especially young people. Now, it can make you feel good, in an everything is OK kind of way. And everything is OK. In fact, it’s better than OK. But not because we are a spirit having a human experience (that is not supported anywhere in the scripture, and the scripture is, after all what points us to Jesus in the first place – so we should pay attention to it, and read it correctly.)

We are not going to die and return to God who made us. Our spirit (translated from the word for “breath, air”) goes out and ‘returns’. We die. Our bodies dissolve, so to speak. Gone. But we have the promise and hope of a resurrection. Jesus was the first. We will follow when He calls us up. It is a mystery, but it is the great hope of the church. It is for preaching it that the apostle Paul was persecuted.

Resurrection is not a separate and secret snatching away, called the rapture. The whole rapture scenario is not supported in scripture any more than our spirits are the eternal part of us that returns to God. This is new age bunk. Pagan religions are based on the lie of immortal souls and eternal spirits. But the God of the Bible says otherwise. Harder to believe than just floating off in bliss? Yes. But as of now, Christ is the only one who has immortality. God is the only sentient spirit. We should leave it that way.

At its core, this belief, that we are spirits having a human experience, smacks of Gnosticism (physical bad, spirit good) as well as the influence of classical Greek thinking that basically said the spirit and the physical were separate, and the spirit was a higher plane of existence.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Pierre_Teilhard_de_Chardin

This is all easy to research. Including the biblical view of man as a whole being. It started in Genesis. God breathed into Adam and he became a living soul. We are living souls, and have a spirit. The spirit is what animates the body and makes us living souls. Not the reverse.

Further, the usage of soul and spirit in the scripture is rather fluid. It’s not as clear cut as some would have us to think. The terms overlap in many places. Personally, I will stick with the foundation already given to us in probably the purest form of any ancient writings.

I just read this on the blog of a well know grace teacher. And my jaw dropped. What in the world? New age hogwash!

 

Henri Nouwen – On Soul & Spirit

You are a spiritual being. You are a spirit, you possess a soul and live in a body.
Spirit Twins – Imagine this scene if you will.

Two babies are in uterus confined to the wall of their mother’s womb, and they are having a conversation. For the sake of clarity we’ll call these twins Soul and Spirit.

Spirit says to Soul, “I know you are going to find this difficult to accept, but I truly believe there is life after birth.”

Soul responds, “Don’t be ridiculous. Look around you. This is all there is. Why must you always be thinking about something beyond this reality? Accept your lot in life. Make yourself comfortable and forget about all this life-after-birth nonsense.”

Spirit quiets down for a while, but her inner voice won’t allow her to remain silent any longer. “Soul, now don’t get mad, but I have something else to say. I also believe that there is a Mother.”

“A Mother!” Soul guffaws. “How can you be so absurd? You’ve never seen a Mother. Why can’t you accept that this is all there is? The idea of a Mother is crazy. You are here alone with me. This is your reality. Now grab hold of that cord. Go into your corner and stop being so silly. Trust me, there is no Mother.”

Spirit reluctantly stops her conversation with Soul, but her restlessness soon gets the better of her. “Soul,” she implores, “please listen without rejecting
my idea. Somehow I think that those constant pressures we both feel, those movements that make us so uncomfortable at times, that continual repositioning and all of that closing in that seems to be taking place as we keep growing, is getting us ready for a place of glowing light, and we will experience it very soon.”

“Now I know you are absolutely insane,” replies Soul. “All you’ve ever known is darkness. You’ve never seen the light. How can you even contemplate such an idea? Those movements and pressures you feel are your reality. You are a distinct separate being. This is your journey and you’re on your own. Darkness and pressures and a closed-in feeling are what life is all about. You’ll have to fight it as long as you live. Now grab your cord and please stay still.

Spirit relaxes for a while, but finally she can contain herself no longer. “Soul, I have only one more thing to say, and then I’ll never bother you again.”

“Go ahead,” Soul responds impatiently.

“I believe all of these pressures and all of this discomfort is not only going to bring us to a new celestial light, but when we experience it, we are going to meet Mother face-to-face and know an ecstasy that is beyond anything we have ever experienced up until now.”

“You really are crazy, Spirit. Now I’m truly convinced of it.”

Man is a living soul. This is the basis of who and what man is. It starts in Genesis.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.  

The idea that the real man is a spirit is not Biblical.

Man is not described as even having a spirit in the beginning. It is pagan. It’s the Greek idea that the natural world is lower than the spiritual and that the two really aren’t connected.

In fact, the prevailing idea behind man being a spirit also generally implies that the physical or natural realm is less real than the spiritual or unseen realm. This is nothing but dualism in Christian disguise. (Dualism is classical thought that has crept into the western view of scripture. But both the old and new testaments are written with an eastern/Judeo viewpoint. They saw the natural and spiritual as a whole, not separated.)

From far too many evangelical pulpits we hear that man is a spirit, has a soul, and lives in a body. In many parts of the world, that is called spiritualism. Voodoo. The basis of ghoulish tales.

If man is a spirit, where does the spirit come from? Some religions believe in a spirit body that lives in a natural body and even looks like that body – or the reverse – the body looks like the spirit. Spirit is described with words that mean air and breath, because it can’t be seen.

I propose that man has a spirit and is a living soul – quite the opposite of the popular notion being preached!

Heaven forbid.  Some religions say our spirits pre-exist with God. And that they are rational, sentient beings which never die. Really? Never die? When Jesus only has immortality? That is not biblical.

1Timothy 5:14b…..until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

God is a spirit. By definition, He isn’t immortal because He never was mortal. He is eternal. John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. This may come as a surprise, since we usually hear that only God has immortality. But it is Jesus to whom this refers. And it is by belief in Jesus that we inherit eternal life.

Paul says this: Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

So it is reasonable to conclude that eternal life is what provides immortality. First to Jesus, and then to us in the resurrection (for clearly our present bodies will see decay).

Please see that it is us who receive eternal life. It is us who will put on immortality. It is us who will have incorruptible bodies. No mention about our spirits. Peter says this: 1Peter 1:23 Being born again (having been regenerated – from the Greek) not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

But didn’t Paul say we are body, soul, and spirit?  (Young’s Literal Translation)1Thessalonians 5:23 …and the God of the peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your whole spirit, and soul, and body, be preserved unblameably in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ;

This passage does not imply separate parts, but merely is a way of describing the whole, and was a common way of expressing things in Paul’s day. Man is, as described elsewhere in scripture, a living soul. He isn’t a spirit that has a soul and lives in a body. That idea is not scriptural.

The words for soul and spirit are used almost interchangeably. That makes a good word search. Very interesting.

Hebrews 4:12 for the reckoning of God is living, and working, and sharp above every two-edged sword, and piercing unto the dividing asunder both of soul and spirit, of joints also and marrow, and a discerner of thoughts and intents of the heart;(Young’s Literal Translation).

God knows the thoughts and intents of the heart.

That is hidden from us; we can’t know it. The distinction of soul and spirit is not clear in scripture. It takes God to know what is in the heart. This passage is not ground for saying the spirit is an entity. It is in no way even implied.

We need to stop listening to fables contrived by man. They lead us into some very strange and ungodly places.

Another passage that is usually referred to for saying man is a spirit is this: 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. Some versions actually say “species” instead of creature. But that is not true to the sense or to the Greek!

Ktisis is the Greek word, and here is the meaning, from Thayer and Smith:

Ktisis – the act of founding, establishing, building etc

  1. the act of creating, creation
  2. creation i.e. thing created
    1. of individual things, beings, a creature, a creation 1b
  3. anything created 1b
  4. after a rabbinical usage (by which a man converted from idolatry to Judaism was called) 1b
  5. the sum or aggregate of things created
  6. institution, ordinance

How someone concludes that this means man’s spirit is born again, but not the rest of him, is beyond me. We know that our bodies will be changed.

We are now converted and are a new “creation”.

Nothing like us has ever been known before. We are re-generated by incorruptible seed and heirs of eternal life. Once again, the fables of man have been placed over the scripture to try and make it support that which is not true.

Let’s start saying what God says, and not what man says.

 

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